Manual Battle of the Sexes (BDSM erotica)

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Continue Reading. When men write about sexism they get praised to high heavens for it, although women have been talking about it, writing about it, making art about it, and living it for so fucking long. As men, we can take responsibility for what is ours: the many ways we participate in and continue to perpetuate sexism. We were English teachers living in Beauvais, France; my hair was full of split ends, and my friend offered a trim. Since none of us owned any glassware, she handed me red wine in a mug. Her fingers combed through my hair, occasionally skimming my scalp, while her scissors quietly and steadily snipped away, like small gentle insects.

There have been more and more representations of queer characters and relationships in mainstream media lately—more depictions of fully fleshed out, round protagonists, given fullness and complexity in their relationships and their narratives. Following pan-African traditions of resistance centered around adaptation, Leenah radically adapts to her surroundings as a deaf woman in a persistently-masculinist and sound-driven movement.

She is on top, curled between his legs with her back against his groin, almost a fetal position. Her thin thighs press together, contained into a skinny tight v. Few studies have been done in science looking for evidence between child corporal punishment and sadomasochism, most of the evidence resides in clinical practice, most fetishes are never revealed to professional psychological practitioners. Again I have no quarel with the BDSM community, I find it disappointing but not surprising that a licensed practitioner of a lower educational degree, L.

My own experience agrees with here with commenter Aimee, " In EVERY case, they suffered childhood abuse - sexual predation, alcoholism, drugs. This has been my experience also, and I have shared two stories where the fetish was involve in some way with children being abused. I have met too many mothers in the early online days of cyber space, some in denial, some honest in admitting sexual arousal from spanking, those in denial swear the adult activity has no relation to spanking their child, those who see this desire as an unwanted afliction see the abuse connection and being aroused by seeing a child spanked would NEVER dream of spanking a child.

As for scientific studies I wonder why the denial here Ms Cooper? Are you going to attempt to separate out a spanking fetish and the emotion of domination and submissiveness to assure readers here that child abuse has not proven to lead to a need for domination or submission as an adult BDSM activity? I can tell you I've been around enough adults just into spanking either with a male being dominated by a female in a committed relationship with the common use of spanking,paddling as the defining physical activity for relational control under guidelines of poor behavior to initiat it.

And it has been very common for women to desire men to dominate them in a marriage relationship called, "Taken in Hand" where the husband uses spanking and paddling when the wife behaves inappropriatly with agreed upon rules! I've shared in early online cyber days chat sessions where I meet such couples, and in almost all of them their children were being spanked by them! It's convenient to separate a spanking fetish from a BDSM term, domination and submission, but guess what, the element of those emotional desires is present in a parent spanking their child!

As for being honest about science, studies have been done and I'll share this article annoucing the results of a study. Agreed it's not linking sadomasochism to child spanking, but it's finding is that indeed spanking a child does expose them to developing a masochistic fetish with spanking.

And in the context of that traumatic humiliating experience for a child where a parent forcefully, ritually undresses them or partially so, with full genital exposure sexual abuse happens and sexual sensations happen, for both parties, one of them doens't understand the experience, while the other may if they have a spanking fetish, is denying it! Here's one science bit of real proof, Review found physical punishment of kids linked to unprotected, masochistic sex as adults. Straus, who was the author of all four studies, hopes the findings will raise awareness among child development experts.

Something experienced by all American kids gets an average of half a page in child development textbooks, and not a single one comes to the conclusion that parents should never spank. Even the revered Dr. Spock, who was anti-spanking, never came right out and advised parents outright not to do it, he added. Instead, Spock advised "avoiding it if you can. A meta-analysis of spanking studies conducted by Gershoff found 93 percent agreement among studies that spanking can lead to such problems as delinquent and anti-social behavior in childhood along with aggression, criminal and anti-social behavior and spousal or child abuse as an adult.

Five percent of people who have never been spanked hit their partners, versus 25 percent of those who were spanked frequently. The review being presented at the meeting are the first to look at the relationship of spanking to sexual behavior. They found that spanking and other corporal punishment is associated with an increased probability of verbally and physically coercing a dating partner to have sex; risky sex such as premarital sex without using a condom; and masochistic sex such as spanking during sex.

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There is a "dose response" at work here. Of course, there's a similar dose response for smokers. But if someone reaches the age of 65 without developing lung cancer, it doesn't mean that smoking isn't harmful. It means the person was one of the lucky ones. It's the same with spanking, Straus said.

And spanking a child once may be like picking up that first cigarette. The recidivism rate for whatever 'crime' you correct a 2-year-old for is about 50 percent in two hours.

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I have come to the conclusion that parents should never, ever spank because, although it does work, it's no better than non-hitting methods that don't have harmful side effects. If there was an FDA for spanking, they'd say use an alternative that doesn't have harmful side effects. And BDSM has a great deal to do with consensual power exchange. I'd also encourage you to look at the statistics on the percentage of the population that's suffered from some kind of child abuse.

I think you'll find it to be very high, so statistically it's not surprising that your friends who are in to BDSM have suffered child abuse The line is between consent and non-consent, and people who partake in BDSM take this very seriously. If it's consensual, it's ok; if not, it's not. No one has the right to sit in judgement on another's sexual interests unless they hurt someone. As a submissive, I'd like to say I've never suffered from child abuse - and I certainly don't want to be cured! BDSM is simply another aspect of sexual arousal, and if you want to understand why people get aroused by different things the best study I've read is 'The Erotic Mind' by Jack Morin.

This book is the largest study I know of of peak erotic experiences, and what makes them so intense. It's a lot more complex than 'I was abused as a child, so I want to do this now. If you have a real interest in the causes of different people's eroticism, please read the work of someone who's dedicated his life to researching it, rather than trotting out the same old hackneyed misinformation.

The theme of a woman's submission leading to empowerment. Similar to "The Story of O" -- which has always had an secret appeal for women, and was of course written by a woman as well. The ideas are also a great draw to male readers, who may not "get" that in the end it is the female who triumphs. She is where the power ultimately lies.


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The L. Times and the NY Times are both writing about this godawful novel which of course will result in the book selling even more copies. I read some excerpts on the Jezebel site and LOL'd - atrociously bad writing and a cliche story with a lame "twist": the demure virgin and the bad boy spanker. Male agression is to blame for most of the world's problems, past and present: We need to turn things around and have men submit to women - it's the only way to save humanity although I'm not sure it deserves to be saved. Read Elise Sutton's writing on the subject of Femdom on her website that bears her name.

I can't include a link here since my comment will most likely be rejected as spam if I do. I can't help but notice how similar some of the remarks in this thread are to those said about gay and lesbian people a generation ago. For some reason people need to believe that we're all alike sexually and that any deviation from the proscribed norm is, well, just plain deviant. Its like: okay, now we are all agreeing to accept that some of us are aroused by members of their own gender, we're no longer calling them sick, but that's it!

All else must be a result of some abuse!

Dominant or Submissive? Paradox of Power in Sexual Relations | Psychology Today

And if these people say that they were never abused then it must be a repressed memory because, damn it, they're not like me and I'm normal, so there must be something wrong here! Newsflash: There is a whole society of people who are aroused by power-exchange dynamics. We exist, we don't prefer our sex the same way that the rest of the population does and yet we come from the exact same array of good and bad-parenting scenarios as do the rest of the you. We are your grocer, your helpful nurse, your kid's best friend and your totally bland-behaving second-cousin.

Exactly like the gay people of previous generations, we celebrate our proclivities in a life that is hidden from your eyes because we don't want to listen to you patiently explain to us that were just acting out some unrecognized childhood abuse trauma. Or fire us from our jobs. Or take away our kids. To Aimee: It's lovely that some of your best friends are black, I mean gay, no — now it's kinky — but how is that anywhere approaching an acceptable sampling of the population?

Join FetLife. Experience hundreds of thousands of people, from practically every country on the planet, frolicking about in pervy paradise. You'll start to notice that … they sound like everyone else! They have their successes and their failures, and they have a different flavor of sexual arousal than you do. We're a small percentage of the human family we think — it's not like any reliable statistics exist on this subject , but we're not, not, not all abuse-victims. Not even a significant minority of us, and believe me, the ones who are do not hide shyly in this community.

As for Mr. John Wilwerding, first you tell us that "this adult alternative sexual lifestyle is viewed by the vast majority of mental health professionals to originate from childhood abuse trauma", later you say that you're "OK" with "mutually consenting BDSM activity"! Oh, and then we catch you whining on a vanilla site! I must have insulted you and not meant to. Your comparison to the social acceptance to earlier discrimination of sexual orientation is understandable with sexual kink but the difference is orientation is nature, BDSM is a environmentaly created condition from chilhhood abuse, either deliberate or accidental.

The God's that decide on mental health illness, a few professionals in the mental health field that decide what is diagnosed as mental illness have just given up and decided to remove sadomasochism from the Bible of mental illness diagnosis, the DSM. The diagnosis wont' label sadomasochism unless it's preventing a person from functioning in their normal day to day activity from more than six months. This takes away the burden of being labled mentally ill with all the negative social stigma and allows people with sadomasochism to feel better about themselves and more "normal" in society.

The other decision the mental health community did was to publically and professionally condem any form of child abuse, including hitting, and spanking in any manner. This is the compromise as a professional organization for both adult victims, fetish BDSM people, and children to protect both groups. So I'm not attacking people who enjoy this lifestyle.

From what I understand even if adult victims who suffer from the effects of child abuse with emotional, and relationship issues recieve psychotherapy the sadomasochistic desires seldom leave them. My complaints were simply in what involvment I have had with BDSM groups my particular need for age play to find partners who enjoy that in the opposite role are few an far between and yet they are often found in family homes as mothers who are in denial of their own spanking fetish with sadistic spanking, who will not seek out group BDSM activity, but enstead chose a monogamous partner who will compliment their denied or accepted sadomasochism in their private intimacy, and often will take advantage of social acceptance of corporally punishing their children, some enjoying it and being motivated by it, and some not but knowing intuitivelly they are perhaps creating the same sadomasochim in their own children and believeing it is perfectly acceptable to do so!

I have found the vast majority of women into sadism who are not embracing BDSM lifestyles socially, but only engaging in it with a union partner they are sexually intimate with, are also radically pro spanking of children. Each child then is beign exposed to the risk of having their own sexuality damaged and the cycle of abuse continues on. I realize it is dangerous to judge all BDSM adults as accepting of spanking their children, but many do. It would seem the professial psychological community has failed by their choice of simply condeming child corporal punishment, in that it is very reluctant to condem it as child punishment for potentially sexual damage reasons.

This allows less social scrutiny of this form of abuse, since it's not considered sexual abuse, when indeed for most children it must be if they do develope a fetish from it. This sounds ridiculous I understand, as some of peoples fetishes originate not from direct abuse experience but from secondary exposure to it in sight, sound, etc, as young children.

I have had psychotherapy for my masochistic desires and I had my repressed dissociated memories of my abuse made conscious to me with PTSD flashbacks that were very emotionally tramatic and painful. Still my fetish remains but I'm happier living with the truth than a lie, that sexual fetishes are natural heredity traits in people. I have had to give up persuing any contentment with my fetish now that I have been put on anticoagulant for the rest of my life and I must live with my masochism anyway. All because I was abused in childhood. For those feel their own abuse didn't harm them overly, and enjoy their adult BDDSM lifestyle I'm all for that but why support people who abuse children, and know some will grow up like myself feeling my sexuality was hijacked, not liking the distraction of never feeling sexually satisfied with vanilla sex and seeing how that is just a majory distraction in my life that would never had had to happen if any form of corporal punishment was banned or at least highly socially condemed in our present society.

Sexually abused and told I wasn't, I'm very sorry for what happened to you as a child.

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No one should have to suffer from that and I am glad you got help. That being said, there is no psychological research to the effect that all BDSM stems from either primary or secondary exposure to childhood abuse, whether that abuse is psychological and physiological in nature. BDSM is not a popular area of research because the subject is so taboo, and as it isn't much discussed there is not a lot of research. There are several cultures in which it is entirely unforgivable to use corporal punishment on children and yet the BDSM community is still large and thriving.

One of the most important mantras of BDSM is "safe, sane, and consensual". Those who engage in sadomasochistic practices take special care to assure that everything is approved by both parties. There have been no correlational studies to determine the rate of corporal punishment among sadomasochistic parents, and even if there were there is no way to determine causality. The rationale you are using seems to stem from a Freudian definition of sadomasochism, as he explained in his essay "A Child Is Being Beaten".

This essay has been LARGELY discredited as an acceptable explanation for the desire to be beaten, without even going into the lack of scientific method and the data that led to his analysis.


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  • If you choose not to indulge your masochistic desires and it works for you, that's your choice and there is nothing wrong with it. That being said, please stop telling the rest of us who choose to practice our preferred lifestyle that it was because of repressed exposure to childhood abuse, because for most of us, it is not. And I say this because you make several strong points and I really want to understand where you're coming from. Citations, please. And please also keep in mind the long list of mentally and psychologically healthy behaviors that were once thought deviant by the psychological community.

    I have seen this very point discussed in multiple forums and have never heard of any credible research as to whether kink is innate or learned behavior, but the consensus amongst the cognoscenti is that we're born with it, it may be hereditary or not, but that being kinky does not mean that one's family is not decisively vanilla. Again, citations needed. Are you making these statements from your own experience only? When you say "They are often found. And when you say "I have found …", are you speaking as a clinical researcher and referring to documented case studies? Ummm … ouch.

    Are we quite certain that your tendencies are as a bottom, Sir? Because you are capable of whipping off some exquisitely toppy zingers, there. Again, I would love to see documentation as to where these two things are historically or clinically related. This might be a good time to mention that I have been in Education for over twenty years and have been a champion of the non-punitive classroom, and that this is the first that I have heard of an association between the rise of the non-punitive movement and the ease-up on the deviancy dunce-cap application to kinksters by the APA.

    Again, either state what scientifically valid research you are using to back up such an incendiary statement or please qualify it as coming from your lifetime observations only the little kid in me want to shout at you to "take it back! Because I have so far found quite the opposite to be true, and this is a subject on which I have a lot of personal and professional interest, and so is guaranteed to perk up my ears whenever it emerges. Subsequent researchers have adopted a less-negative perspective, viewing SM not as a symptom of mental illness but. The paper continues on to say that the cited research focused on readers of SM magazines, patrons of gathering places such as clubs and bars, and people involved in conferences and workshops, rather than those who were seeking psychiatric evaluation.

    The paper's conclusion, based on the authors' research involving the physiological measurement of salivary testosterone and cortisol and "the psychological measures of relationship closeness before and after participating in SM activities", is that "SM, when performed consensually, has the potential to increase intimacy between participants.

    A "relatively healthy social phenomenon performed by well-educated people with positive attitudes about themselves and their behaviors" that "has the potential to increase intimacy between participants" — wait, that's what our culture defines as "a good thing", no? I will share that my information is shared via my education while in psychotherapy by a well respected psychoanalyst with PhD and over 25 years experience.

    Florence Rosiello. The one comment I recall that made perfect logical sense is that genetically the desire to inflict pain, physical and or mental or recieve it serves NO biological evolutionary purpose whatsoever that is a strong indication that the source of sadomasochism is environmental not genetic.

    One will never be able to use science to answer that question of linking child abuse and adult sadomasochistic fetishes. The last sad scientific study done in a carefully designed and conducted social experiement was done in the 80's in Oregon. I was shocked that as late a time as that professionals were still considering it "safe" to experiment with violence and children in the context of physical punishment!

    My therapist at the time shared she found it rare and also her fellow collegues found it rare for people to seek out treatment for sadomasochims. She shared she had in her experience of practice one female who had sought help for her sadism. I have met on various occasions since the advent of the internet women and also men who admitted practiced BDSM activities, strongly believed in the ritual practice of forced partial disrobment of a childs clothes and underclothes, who were in a capacity as a caregiver, either some type of related guardian, or parent role.

    They in detail described the intentional use of exposing the child to them as a strong means of humiliation prior to the ritual positioning of the child and then inflicting the pain of their blows to them as punishment. Some went so far as to share they were still childless but were anticipating this "duty" with great anticipation and enjoyment!

    Others would patently deny their enjoyment of it while praising their experiences of being whipped by a partner. Such cognitive dissonance is quite common to avoid a sexual abuse label. I won't do the work for you and you can convieniently discard my statements. I have met mothers online who had such sadomasochistic desires themselves, were looking for another female partner to satisfy their needs who NEVER consiously understood in defined terms they had a sadomasochistic fetish in themselves yet strongly believed it was normal and neccesary to spank their children, and never saw it motivating them with some subconcious or sadly for some even consious gratification for their unidentified sadistic fetish.

    I will not trott out lots of defending studies, there are noted if you go look a few studies that have been done as survey type work where it has been found that those adults who share they were spanked as children have a greater incidence of sadomasochistic desires in their intimate sex lives. It certainly would seem to those with sadomasochistic fetishes that genetic propensities seem logical if parents had such fetishes and there offspring did also, but the environmental transmittion of sadomasochism is very logical if parents spanked and the offspring also spank.

    I also was troubled by the same doubts expressed by so many who enjoy their BDSM desires and accept them. It was explained to me by my therapist at the time that not all adults will recall there experiences of abuse, some as I said could have been traumatized by secondary exposures, and some where just to young to remember their trauma.

    For such individuals which it seems you are stating are in this catagory it is certainly logical that you would have no knowledge of abuse and so would only embrace it as a natural part of your sexuality, and find the issue of social acceptance in vanilla society the greatest challenge. I have been in the BDSM community, I've been fulfilled by some scening, but the generational transmittion of this sexual lifestyle by child abuse, for those of us who have trauma memories of it makes it impossible to accept the very low change regarding how parents are damaging their children's sexuality as a life long need by not doing more as unintended victims of this social disease.

    Lastly I will share that the most recent discoveries in human brain chemistry and brain scans are already begining to offer real scientific evidence of brain chemistry changes from the experience of child corporal punishment. It is still in early stages of study but I'm convinced such research will unequivicalably produce the solid evidence that corporal punishment is changing in negative ways human brain structure. Human sexuality I belive will be a part of that evidence in the future. Enjoy your kink, but please don't run from the debate about corporal punishment being harmless for children just to validate your own lifestyle as normal and safe.

    Of course one should accept themselves as they are but it need not sacrifice future children in the process. One last thought I'll share is that I once believed the misinformation about origins of sadomasochism. The social groups all believed it was a natural part of themsleves, just a minority. When I met my first online dominant sadistic woman I greived myself that I had for most of my life denied my masochistic desire in fear and shame. I got my wife involved we played some, played in small married couple groups or with her supervisioin played with a dominant partner or two! But I sought help for it since my initial attempt to in real life experience my desires ended in rejection.

    She was a psychiatric nurse, her husband a bitter man who remarried to her after his first wife had divoriced him for his bondage desires. The woman had initially wanted to help me as I was a kink virgin at the time. I learned she had believed she developed her own sadistic desires at the hands of closely being exposed to in the classroom paddlings of a fellow classmate by a teacher. I could sense by her sharing it had been very tramatic for her. Anyway we met as couples and enjoyed the exchange but I was nervous and fearful of her since she had shared her traumatic memories.

    I wasn't sure I would be safe with her and begged for just a slow bit of time to get to know her better and ask to start slow without intense pain but slight instead. She promtly rejected me as she said my hesitance was comming from me only playing her. My fear had been real but she thought I was dishonest. It hurt me enough having anticipated my first experience that I was depressed for a week. My wife intervened for me and I tried to rescue the situation by meeting alone with her husband once, but she would not see me or speak to me again.

    And this comming from someone who was a trained psych nurse, who understood here own needs were developed by abuse she witnessed as a child in school. It was then I found a trusted therapist and started to unravel the lies and or misconceptions about this compulsive desire. I can recall to this day the first time this masochistic desire became so powerful it made me act out in solo a masochistic postioning for a spanking in a school bathroom. I felt someone had taken over my body and mind.

    I had no concept of sexuality or sex at the time as I was only 9 years old in 5th grade! I had no idea what made me do this, only it was not natural, and if anyone discovered my desire I would be shamed and ridiculed. I have met BDSM adults who strongly condem child corporal punishment and I have met BDSM adults who belive it is absolutely neccessary to spank their children, meanwhile divoricing it from their own sexual sadomasochism activity.

    That is a consumate denial response. I belive the issue of overt genital contact pedophilia as a horrific and criminal act is so frightening a thought for most BDSM adults along with the social acceptable license to act by caregiving parents to have access to their childs bodies for legitimate needs of dresssing, hygiene,and medical care that they must deny any concept of sexual abuse of children could be possible living with this set of sexual desires.

    Indeed I belive it is neccessary for organized lifestylers to go out of their way to legitimize their needs as personal choices with harmless consequences, either not having any involvment with children or making certain all social forces agree with them that a ritualized forced act of humiliation and pain infliction upon ones own child for punishment value is a completely separate experience than one for sadistic value. The social taboo's are too powerful to admit one could exist with the other simultaneously.

    I find the psychological discoveries and media discussions of this topic change a great deal from year to year, and citing something three years old or older is outdated by new information. I will share one media article link that points out overt deliberatly inflicted sexual abuse of young males by adult women. It discusses some of the negative side effects in these adult victims as men.

    It mentions masochism which is well documented and published if one is willing to go look. That one could recall as a child being sexually aroused though at the time not understand and identify it as such, by a mothers ritual order to come to her, have her slowly undress and expose the child's genitals to her with a deliberate humiliation, all the while hiding her own non verbal body language of her pleasure found in her eyes, in doing so behind a facade of stern solemness.

    One can easily begin to understand a sexual abuse is occuring in a very covert manner, even innocently if they are in complete denial of their own kink or don't have this kink themselves, which the psychological community is afraid to reveal to the majority population of corporal punishment approving parents and a BDSM community that must keep its own interests of preserving their own hard won battles for sexual acceptance. It is the child and there own sexuality that remains sacrificed for the preservation of sexual freedom and the right to use corporal punshment on children.

    The Flavour of Erotica I love that metaphor liking the flavours of icecream to the sexual experiments of dominance and submission.

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    I dont really understand why we as a society need to suppress and create taboos about of blatantly existing emotions in cases where no harm is done to anyone at least no one who doesnt want to be haha. I am the healthiest, happiest woman you will meet. Attractive, educated and very positive. I also am very confident, very strong and able to take charge. I had a nearly perfect childhood no abuse whatsoever and the best parents I could ask for to be sure. Finally in my mid's I found the courage. I found a site called Fetlife and my whole life changed!

    In private we have an intense and kinky sex-life that most can't even imagine. The erotic pleasure of our sex life is so intense it is like a drug--in the best way. I have found ZERO instances of abuse or past abuse or parents who raise a hand to their children. Please, no one read some of the above misinformation and think for one second that any of it is true. There needs to be a light shone on those who try and shame healthy adults safely exploring healthy human sexuality. A great and useful comment here from another site--especially cause that one poor gal is soooo hung up on spanking children leading to--well according to her practically everything:.

    They cannot be given or carried out arbitrarily, mechanically, or without heart or they lose their meaning. Ditto the teen girls calling themselves Findoms financial Dominatrices who have nothing but a Twitter account and a desire to no longer work at Starbucks. While the hallmarks of Dominance can include hurling insults at someone and asserting your absolute dominion over them, the real thing requires intelligence, humility, and patience. Ironically you have to have humility to effectively humiliate!

    Calling someone Mommy or Daddy has nothing to do with your parents. Trying to apply psychology, politics, or social constructs to BDSM will always result in abject failure. Those who like it, like it, there is no more explanation necessary.